Third Meeting

We had our third seeker group meeting on Sunday, November 1. This time, we had four guests. Three have attended all three meetings, one has attended two. We had a couple of last minute cancellations, which have become common unfortunately. Two group members are from my workplace, one is a boyfriend of my colleague, and one is an old high school friend. We did a potluck this time, at the request of the group, and it turned out to be a nice fall-themed meal. We spent some time eating and chatting and then started the meeting.

We went over the 2nd lesson in “How does anybody know God exists?” We followed it very closely, and I make a handout for the group with the discussion questions, verses, and a “take home” assignment. We created a very full discussion handout this time (10 questions). This was very helpful, because when things got a little off track, we could say we needed to keep moving forward to get through the material and bring everyone back to the handout.

We started with a review of the purpose of the group. I really wanted to reiterate that for my husband and me, we want the group to be a place for those seeking truth. I was a little discouraged after the last meeting that the group was not interested in seeking truth because they didn’t believe that there is an absolute truth of any kind. I was a little nervous about asking the members what they saw the purpose to be, but most comments actually fell more in line with our purpose than I thought they would.

We then discussed arguments for and against God’s existence. People seemed to take issue with all of the arguments on both sides and that made for a lively discussion. Three of the four group members say they do not believe in God, so it is challenging to keep pushing forward with discussions about God as they keep insisting this. Before, I felt the group was stuck in the question “is there a God” and I wasn’t sure how to move forward, but my husband and I decided that we have to keep providing the material we think is important and on the path toward discovering the true God of Christianity regardless of how adamant the members are that they don’t believe in any god. I had to remind myself that these four people have continued to show up in spite of their insistence on not believing in God, so I will continue moving forward as long as they continue to come!

One of the key questions we realized we needed to ask (after rereading parts of Garry’s book), was “how confident are you in what you believe?” We asked it this time, and one group member said he was a zero. He seems to fall into the agnostic category in most of what he says, but this was interesting to me. No one else was willing to put a number to the question, and I was actually hoping this question would have more of an impact than it seemed to. I think I will bring this question up in a different wording next time, because for this group I think it is important that they realize the lack of confidence they can have in a belief system that is all their own (no God, no other believers in their way of thinking, or the idea that it doesn’t matter and it will become clear when we die).

Another issue that we brought up was the idea of absolute truth. Group members have made it clear that they disagree with the concept because they talk about how Christianity might work for us, but something else (undefined spirituality or no stated belief system) works for them. I asked them to consider the idea that there is one absolute truth in the world. I said that whether or not any of us discover it or know what it is for sure, that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. This is an issue that has been really bothering me, because group members will say, “that is fine for you, this is what I believe.” Or, “truth depends on culture.” Or, “I am not worried about it now. I’ll just figure it out when I die.” I will definitely try to come back to this again next time because I think it is a key point that this group of seekers would benefit from considering further.

Late in the discussion, I actually skipped over a question on accident, which was, “I think it is fair to say there probably isn’t a person alive who hasn’t had doubts about the existence of God. When have you experienced these doubts and how have you dealt with them?” Since the group members had the list of questions in front of them, one of the most vocal members asked John and I to answer it. She said she wanted to hear our thoughts since we seemed so sure about what we believed. I thought it was important that she wanted to know what we thought, since we are careful not to constantly bring up our opinions and perspectives. We both shared our experiences with doubts and how we had dealt with them through study, prayer, life experience, etc. I asked her the same question in response, and she shared how she had really looked for God in her late teens, but had determined that she was completely on her own in this life. From knowing her, I know that this was a time in her life that some pretty traumatic events happened with her parents. It was hard to hear her conclusion, because the way she stated it was quite final. However, it gave me hope that the group might be growing closer and opening up more. I hope she will reconsider her decision in the near future.

We finished off with the “take home question,” which was:

Let’s assume you have had, or currently have, doubts about God. If you are willing, try this experiment on your own. Ask God to make himself real to you. Ask him to show you, in ways that will be meaningful to you, that he can be relied upon.

I also gave them one of the checklists from the book that asks people to check the position that best describes their current position on the existence of God.

I sent follow-up handwritten notes to the group members, thanking them for various things they shared and for the food they brought. We plan to meet again in about a month, and we will move into the discussion of “what is God really like?” This idea actually came up in the last discussion as someone said that we needed to define God, so I think it makes sense to go there next.

Second Meeting

We had our second meeting on Sunday. We had a bbq before the discussion and watched a little football, which seemed to create a nice relaxed, dynamic. After about an hour of hanging out, we started the discussion. We actually handed out an agenda of sorts to the participants, hoping that they would take it home and think about it. We also asked them to read a couple of things out loud. We also plan to send it to those who couldn't make it to keep them in the loop. We had three people return from our first meeting and two newcomers, one that was invited by a seeker. We were also encouraged that there was another possible new person invited by a seeker that didn't end up coming. Maybe next time.

We discussed a few questions from the first session in "How does anyone know God exists?" We asked group members to read the introduction from that section out loud (we had typed it onto their agenda). It begins, "Wouldn’t it be great to know for sure about the existence of God?" It goes on to talk about how sometimes we let go of believing in God just like we let go of believing in the Easter bunny, Santa, etc. It was quite a discussion starter. The group responded to that for about one hour. I probably let it go a little long, but it was really a discussion between the group members so I wanted to let them make those connections.

We planned to go over the different positions about God next (atheist, agnostic, deist, theist, etc.), but we didn't really get there. A few people referenced it in their comments since it was on the agenda, but we didn't go over each definition. Our next goal was to ask the group which position they identified with most/which made the most sense to them. But we didn't get there. Instead, we skipped to the passage where God speaks to the Athenians about the unknown God ( Acts 17: 16-34 ). We felt it tied in well because it mentions the other philosophies the Athenians held and shows the distinction between pantheism and monotheism. It also has a beautiful part about how God created the world "so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."

Overall, there was a lot of discussion from one participant (my brother) who felt very strongly that God is the creator, but does not understand why the church is so divided, how to know if the Bible is authoritative, etc. The group asked him a lot of questions since he seemed so passionate about both his faith and doubts. Some people asked, "why don't you just give it up then, since it seems to frustrate you?" He said because it makes sense to him that God created the world. One person said she identified with a lot of what he said, so it was good to see the group members connecting.

We asked again if they would like to come back, and this time, they said yes! They said they would like to meet monthly. They also said we should make it a potluck next time so I don't have to do so much cooking. I thought that was really neat, because it shows they are starting to take some ownership of the group. A month is a long time in between, so I hope to spend time individually with each person between meetings. I think that will provide a good opportunity to continue the thoughts mentioned in the group on a one-on-one level.

We decided after the meeting that a missing element was the question, "how confident are you in your beliefs." Some people in our group say a lot of things that don't have much of a basis, and they all differ greatly in their opinions. There is almost a new age belief system for some of the participants, and they want to make it okay for all of us to belief differently. It is challenging to know how to help the group move to more questions rather than stating opinions. I think a question about their confidence level will help. I believe Garry's materials say that this question is one of the five types of questions that should be asked each time. I am starting to think that is the next most important thing we do.

We are following up with the group members now. One of the new participants said he did not want to return because he doesn't have any faith. (He used to go to a Christian church and was very involved.) He is the boyfriend of one of the attenders, so I don't know him well, but I plan to pray for him a lot and see if that changes by next month. His girlfriend said she wants to come back, but only after a long conversation. She felt the discussion was "negative" because it was too focused on doubts that people had. I shared with her that I didn't think it would feel that way every time, but I said I think it is important to allow people to voice their doubts and concerns. For some, it is the first chance they have had to express them. She seemed to agree with me after we talked for awhile. Two others seemed very positive about the meeting and said they enjoyed the discussion. My brother stayed after and talked with us for awhile about some of the questions he had raised. It was really neat to see him there, as my family has been praying for him for a long time.

Reflections on First Meeting (10 days later)

I had a conversation with Garry Poole after the first meeting since I needed some guidance on what to do next. We had a great conversation, and I wanted to share the insights that Garry helped me uncover.

My first question stemmed from the range of "questions for God" we had. Three people came up with questions: why are we here, don't people just go to God when something bad happens, and why does God allow people to misrepresent him and develop so many religions. The other three didn't offer a question. More importantly, a big question came out during the discussion from two of the participants: what if I don't believe in God? Garry recommended using the guides from the Tough Questions series, "How does anyone know that God exists?" He said that even though most of the participants already believe in God, it will be helpful for them to articulate the reasons for their belief, and it will be helpful for those who don't believe in God to listen to the reasons that others do believe.

Another question I had was how to follow up since no one jumped when I asked if they wanted to come again. I didn't sense that the answer was no, but I sensed that everyone was too afraid to be the first to speak up. Garry suggested John (my co-leader) could have made light of it and said, "I want to come again!" to help encourage others to make the committment. But since that didn't happen, we were left with a lot of follow-up work. Garry suggested I talk personally with each person and ask for a critique on my facilitating skills or the meeting in general. I have been able to get some feedback and do this to some extent, and it has been a great recommendation. Right now, 4 of the 6 have said they want to come back. We haven't connected with the married couple yet.

In regards to those who couldn't make the first meeting but seemed interested in coming, Garry
recommended inviting them to join the current group. He suggested a way to include them would be to mention that the existence of God was one of the issues that the group had differing perspectives on, so we were going to discuss that topic a little further. Then I would mention that the way some of the questions came up is that group members shared their questions for God. I could then ask if they would like to share any of their questions for God. This would all take place after the icebreakers and before the discussion on the existence of God.

Garry and I also talked about the way that John and I chose to structure the meeting, which was a little bit different than the way the book recommended. One difference was that we chose two icebreakers for the group to choose between, and Garry said he thought they seemed very deep for people just getting to know each other. I think John and I felt that people were coming to talk about spiritual things and they knew that, so they might be prepared for deep questions. However, Garry recommended letting people choose a number from 1-100 and passing the book around. That is definitely what we'll try next time. I think it is important for people to feel comfortable before they get into the deeper matters. A second thing we decided to do was to ask people about their religious backgrounds before we asked the "If you could ask God..." question. Garry cautioned against this, since it could turn the focus toward the problems with other religions instead of the more personal, emotional reaction to the "If you could ask God..." question. It worked okay in our situation, but I think we could have done without it.

Another think I learned from my conversation with Garry was the distinction between offering my affirmation and offering my opinion. I listened a little too much in the first meeting, not taking all the opportunities I could to affirm group members and thank them for sharing. I was trying to serve as a facilitator and not take over, but Garry reminded me that the group members definitely need affirmation. So being a good listener doesn't mean being silent. In other words, it is okay to be a vocal participant as the discussion leader, just don't share strong beliefs in a way that shuts down the seeking process for the participants.

I am now beginning to prepare for the next meeting and working on inviting those who didn't come the first time once again. I hope these insights will be helpful for those of you who are still planning your first meeting!

First meeting!!!

I think it went well. Six people ended up coming (plus a three year old!). It was fairly comfortable in terms of the getting-to-know-you portion. We went around and shared names, where we were born, and occupations. Then we gave them the option of two icebreakers, both from Garry's book. One was to share someone they knew who performed the most random acts of kindness of anyone they know, and one was to share something about themselves that would surprise those who knew them best. The group seemed to get along well, and there was some laughter during this time, which was our goal. Then we asked people to share a bit about their religious background. Three were Catholic growing up, and "liked it" but are not attending now. I think they all had problems with it as well, but they talked more about how they liked the rituals, etc. Another girl talked about how her dad was Buddhist and her mom was Quaker, but she went to Catholic school. She identified more with the Buddhism in her sharing, but I know from knowing her that she doesn't actually practice it at all. One other girl also said she was into Buddhism due to yoga, but same thing with her...I think that is kind of a fall back, safe thing to say in this culture. What I heard was that they don't practice anything, and are really quite lost spiritually. Another girl said she wants to go to the Rock--she used to go to Saddleback--but she is married to the guy who is Catholic and isn't sure what he wants in terms of faith right now. Then we asked the "If you could ask God one question" question. We received some interesting answers--all very different. Two people didn't offer their answers. Finally, we read the passage from Matthew 6 on not serving both God and money and not worrying. People seemed to like it. One of the Catholic girls said she had never read or heard the Bible even after years of attending church. She said she didn't really listen when they read it in church. When I asked if anyone wanted to continue, no one said yes for sure, but in talking to them after the fact inividually, they all really enjoyed it. I plan on emailing them to get a better idea of whether they want to try it again. So...we felt pretty good about it. At the very least, we know where people stand and have a better place to start conversations for each one individually. If they want to meet again, I will probably extend another invite to the seven others who said they were interested but couldn't make it. My biggest issue right now is what the curriculum for the next meeting would be since people were in really different places. It was definitely challenging not to jump in and say something about the gospel when people were talking about not believing in "a god," but John and I both saw how it was better to not jump in because it built trust. I felt very drained that night, like all the preparation and prayer and excitement finally was over...but now I feel more rested and ready to start the next phase of the group. I am kind of back to inviting again, but this time it will be much easier with those who came, because I will also be able to follow up with some of the things they said individually. I think they will come back.

Invitations and Date

I wanted to give a couple of updates on my group. I set a date for Thursday, Aug 20. I have invited a few people with an email invitation as a follow up to a more casual, face-to-face invite. I received one very positive response from a woman whose husband has been hesitant to come to church. I would request prayer for him, because she was very excited, but he said something about going at his own pace and feeling a little pushed by the invitation. Another old friend of mine responded very positively to the email invite, saying that she and her husband haven't included much spirituality in their marriage, but her dad overdosed and died one month ago and they have been thinking a lot about life and death ever since. It is amazing to me how God's timing works. This couple has been on my heart since I learned about seeker small groups, and I can see that God has been preparing them. They are out of town for the first meeting, but I will find a way to invite them to the second meeting or another "first meeting." I would appreciate prayer for the upcoming invites I am making as well as those who have committed to come.

Inviting Another Friend Tonight

I just wanted to ask for prayer as I just found out I am seeing an old friend tonight that I plan on inviting to my Seeker Small Group. I would appreciate prayer for God to give me guidance in how to invite her and her husband, and I would also pray that He would prepare their hearts. Their names are Amanda and Eric. Thanks so much!

SSG First Meeting Journal

Here's some observations from our first meeting with our Seeker group:

-We followed the scripted first meeting from the class notes, it flowed very well.

-We read 1 Timothy 1:15-16 instead of John.

-In response to the question "What would you ask God", we got very few actual questions. Just about every member used the question as a prompt to state their beliefs about God. This is even after we both went first to "set the tone" of response. Overall though, we gathered that they all has a similar theme about wondering about human suffering.

-Half of the group (2 out of 4) had never even met any of the leaders, I think this set the group back a little bit as we now need use group time to establish trust with the new members.

-Though there was an overall sense of mistrust of Christianity, body language showed interest when we read the Bible verse aloud. Some even leaned in to listen, which was encouraging. No one completely blew it off.

Those stood out in my mind. Kelly probably has a few more observations that she can share. Overall, I found it to be a somewhat hostile and intimidating experience, even with three leaders. Talking with Gary, he said this probably because of the lack of prior relationships with the members. We had to take about two hours afterwards to pray and debrief each other and lift each other back up. After a few days of reflection and prayer, I think it was no accident that our first meeting went like this. There were TONS of lessons learned and it can be an example to future leaders that even a "worst case scenario" is survivable and that in the end, God is the one who we get our strength and motivation from and He is the one really leading the group.

Still Inviting Friends...

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am in the process of inviting people. I believe Garry said at one time that this was the hardest part? I sure feel that way right now, partly because of how much time it takes to plan something to get face-to-face with people, and partly because I want these people to come SO MUCH that I am putting a lot of weight on the outcome of the invitation. I keep having to release that to God. I know He will bring who He wants to come. I have invited two people so far (and their significant others). Both expressed interest and said they were willing to come. I have a feeling it will be challenging to actually get people to show up once I tell them a date, so I am considering these invites as the first step. I plan to follow up with more information, and I love the idea of paper invitations as a follow up. I might try that. I have about 9 other people that I plan to invite, and I am currently trying to set up coffee dates, walks, etc., so that I can do it in person. I was really surprised by the first couple of invitations. I spent a lot of time practicing what I was going to say, and when it came out, it was completely spur of the moment and different than planned!

Monday the 13th

Ryan Moore and I are having our first meeting on Monday July 13th.  We've invited 4 people, our prayer is that they all come.  Tonight, however, after I left my small group the Holy Spirit gave me a word that, "it's not too late" to invite more ... His timing is always perfect. I plan to make invitations (actual paper-like invitations) and watch to see where God is at work.  It might be nice to have something handy with directions or contact info in case someone is really interested. I look forward to hearing about others' experiences and look for encouragement from your posts. Please pray for us. 

Welcome!

Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the Rock Seeker Small Group Blog! I threw this blog together this afternoon to help us communicate with one another in the weeks to come. I will try to get our IT Dept involved to help beautify and increase functionality of the blog in the future, but hopefully this will make due for now.

I know there are several leaders launching their seeker small groups this week and I wanted them to have a forum to ask questions and share their experiences with the rest of us.

Please feel free to utilize this blog to connect with one another! If you have questions on how to use it, I'll do my best to answer them. I'd also love any feedback that you may have to make this blog better!

Happy Blogging!

God bless,

Danah